Correspondence

Providents make the heart grow fonder....

In a message dated 4/14/2007 2:53:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, levynorman@    writes:

On West 72nd Street between numbers 166 and 174 is a two story Art Deco building (there is no number on the building). It  now contains a Citibank. I seem to recall that in the 1940's it housed an Automat. Is this correct?

email: levynorman@

You've got it!   Filed a the Department of Buildings in 1931 by F. P. Platt, a storefront specialist, but probably really designed in the main H&H offices. There's something similar on the north side of the street, I think that's a Provident Loan office.  It's interesting, these "network buildings", more or less identical works of architecture forming a web all over the city. 

 

 

Christopher Gray
"Streetscapes" Columnist, Sunday Real Estate Section, The New York Times

This was before Lynne and I were friends....

In a message dated 4/18/2007 3:08:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, LFAA@ writes:

There is a residential building near the on- ramp of the West Side Highway (344 W 72) that once had a marquee that appears quite elaborate in old photos. A colleague is working on a scheme to recreate a shorter version as there is not mushc sidewalk left. (I understand the on ramp will be closed off soon and Riverside Blvd will be connected to W 72?)  Would you know if the original would have had glass or metal between the struts?  Although I have seen glass on the dropped metal edges along West End, I do not think I have seen it in the horizontal parts of a marquee.  Also, a copper marquee with a curved profile is about one third the cost of a glass-filled one.

Lynne, I have never seen such a marquee without top-glazing.  Examine 998 Fifth and 1165 and 1170 Fifth (although the last two are recent grade-C "restorations".)  

 

Such features very similar to the Chatsworth's would include one installed c. 1900 the Osborne, although that one is long gone.

 

c

 

C

The fatally flawed Withey ....

 

In a message dated 1/10/2008 4:26:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rwojtowi@   writes:

Withey's *Biographical Dictionary of American Architects,
Deceased* says Carpenter went to the Ecole

The Witheys were so deeply flawed, I tend to run the other way but of course that is a wild overreaction.   And they were good on organizational and educational details, because they knew many of the architects. 

 

I think I wrote you earlier that the B-A was not mentioned in the NCAB.  It isn't in my transcription, true, but it is in the NCAB, "For a year and a half following [his partnership with Peebles] he studied at the Ecole des Beaux-Arts in Paris."   That's specific enough that I take it as true, and the detail is repeated in Pencil Points and Architectural Forum. 

 

When I wrote you I was traveling, and only had the notes from my article on Carpenter (not even the article itself) and I am chagrined I misinformed you.  I should have let it wait until I could really check it.

 

Christopher

Immigrants walking up ....

 

In a message dated 2/4/2008 12:19:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, MARKPDALY@   writes:

I have lived for a number of years at 1693 Second Ave and was interested in knowing more about the history of the building.  This walkup stands out from many others on the block with its elaborate exterior ornamentation which has now become most prominent after an exterior cleaning.  Prior to renovations, many of the units interiors also featured detailed Victorian fireplaces, elaborate moldings, and transom windows.  These features have led me to believe that this building was constructed to house more that just the immigrant masses.  Is this the case?    

Ummm.  Kind of swamped with "upper east side" questions - I have to keep some semblance of order.

 

But, if you want to pursue this interesting question, the only realistic way to examine it is to compare simultaneous lists of tenants - and their occupations.  That is only done through working the census returns, for which a very general explanation is contained after my sig line below.  

 

Remember that the typical Second Avenue building was built in the early 1880s, just after the El went up, at a time the upper east side was not so developed.  Later buildings - like yours, which I style-date to the mid-1890s - would attract tenants from a higher level of income, since the neighborhood was more established.

 

An additional approach would be to find the original drawings of several buildings (including yours) and figure the density of occupants - presumably the denser means lower down on the scale.

 

Wish I could help you more directly.

 

Christopher Gray

 

Christopher Gray
"Streetscapes" Columnist, Sunday Real Estate Section, The New York Times

For a general survey of research techniques, please examine "Researching a New York City Building" (current as of 2007) at http://www.nysoclib.org/building_history.html .

For a digitized version of the New York City (Manhattan) new building permits from 1900-1986, please examine www.metrohistory.com/searchfront.htm .

The Grinnell ....

 

In a message dated 4/9/2008 12:35:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, MVelard@  writes:

Who were the architects/builders of the Grinnell 800 RSD?

Do I have to do all the heavy lifting around here?

 

10 March 5, 2000

 

The Grinnell

 

Q Newspaper
advertisements say that our building, the Grinnell, was completed in August
1911. But we've been told it was designed by George F. Pelham in 1909 and
completed in April 1910. Which is correct? . . . Nicholas Bunning, Manhattan.

 

A  George Pelham did file a building plan in 1909 for the Grinnell -- bounded by
157th Street, Riverside Drive and Audubon Place (now Edward M. Morgan Place) --
but it was not carried out, and the building was completed in 1911 under a
different permit. The site was part of the estate of Dr. George Bird Grinnell,
an author and naturalist who was called ''the father of American conservation''
in his obituary in The New York Times in 1938. Dr. Grinnell selected the site
for the Bronx Zoo, and led the movement that designated Yellowstone a national
park. In 1908, the extension of Riverside Drive northward destroyed part of
Grinnell's suburban grounds around Riverside Drive and 157th Street, and he
decided to develop the land he owned. In 1909 he had Pelham file plans for a
six-story building on the site of the present eight-story Grinnell and two
six-story buildings on the site of the present 12-story Riviera, one block
south. But building records indicate that all three plans were abandoned after
several months, and professional builders took over the projects. Max Marx and
Mark Ash hired Rouse & Goldstone to design the Riviera, completed in 1910.
The Grinnell was ultimately developed by a corporation headed by William
Fredenburg and Herbert D. Lounsbury, prominent brick manufacturers, who hired
the architects Schwartz & Gross to design the eight-story building. Simon
Schwartz and Arthur Gross, who had studied together at the Hebrew Technical
Institute, were just then becoming favored by apartment house developers and
soon built a very successful practice. Perhaps the developers, with a better
understanding of the most profitable improvement for the site, approached
Grinnell and bought him out. The revised plan for the Grinnell was filed at the
Department of Buildings on May 5, 1910, and marked completed on July 29, 1911,
consistent with newspaper ads you have uncovered.

The children are grown up ....

 

In a message dated 5/5/2008 2:17:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, MVelard@  writes:

I’m fascinated by the house at 809-811 RSD – what do you know about its history?  

xxx

Obviously you were trekking Nepal on June 6, 2004 and when you got back in September, someone had stolen the RE section ...

c

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

    
From:   Christopher Gray  799-0520 - or MetHistory@aol.com
For:  June 6, 2004

         
Question: When were the unusual houses at 809-811 Riverside Drive built?

 

From:  Michael Henry Adams, Manhattan

 

Answer: This unusual double house was built on the triangle-shaped plot at 158th Street in 1921 by Nathan Berler, a clothing wholesaler and real estate developer.  Designed by Moore & Landsiedel, the Georgian style house has the character of a suburban residence, even though apartment development was well along in taking over the area.   An article in The New York Times said that Berler was going to occupy 809 and had “found no difficulty in selling the north half”.  

 

But that version is called into question by other records:  Charles S. Levy, a lawyer, is listed as owning the plot before construction, on the building permit and also in the 1925  census - suggesting that he was a co-investor, and the pair could not actually sell the  northerly house.  The Times article also said that Berler was building 809-811 as a test for  other, similar development in the area, but it appears that he built no others. 

 

In 1925 Berler built the apartment building at 807 Riverside Drive; according to a Times account the building had a grand ballroom, 40x60, for the tenants’ use.  When Berler leased the house to another party in 1933, another article said it had a $25,000 organ. 

 

Betty Bizzell says she bought the house 30 years ago the prior owner, after a dispute that did not involve Mrs. Bizzell, ripped out the pipe organ just before closing.  She says she is also planning on selling the house.  “The children are grown up - we’ve loved the house, but we’d like to move to an  apartment.”

 

 

The old 277 Park ....

 

In a message dated 7/18/2008 11:07:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Marie-Louise_Fulweiler@   writes:

When I was little, there was a very large red brick apartment building with limestone trim and a center drive at either 277 Park or 299 Park.  My great aunt lived in the prewar apartment building, and I visited her, but I can't remember the number.  Both addresses are now office towers (I work in 277 and look at 299).  Part of the reason Aunt Gerry lived there was to be not too far from her sister, my grandmother Platt, who lived at 340 Park (now part of an office tower) before she moved to 570.

 

Lisa, my old skiing buddy!  Not that I could keep up with you.   Yes, I love that old thing, you are resting on the foundations thereof - when Chembank (now there's a vintage name, like "long distance" or "dial the number") built in 1961, they reused 277's original steel.

 

I answered this as a Q & A once, and can't really do it again.  But the below will be of interest.

 

C

 

                  March  17, 1991, Sunday, Late Edition - Final
                  SECTION: Section 10; Page 6; Column 1; Real Estate Desk

 

LENGTH: 860 words

 

HEADLINE: Streetscapes: Readers' Questions;
A Vanished Circular Driveway

 

SERIES: This is another in a series of columns answering questions about New
York's changing streetscapes.

 

BYLINE: By  CHRISTOPHER GRAY

 

 BODY:
 
Where's the Driveway?

 

   Q.  My mother pointed out the office building at 277 Park Avenue to me and
said that the previous building had had a circular driveway in an inner
courtyard. How could we have let this be torn down? What was the reasoning? . .
. Alison Merritt Dealy, Astoria.

 

   A.  The prior 277 Park Avenue, an apartment house between 47th and 48th
Streets, indeed had a drive in a giant interior court. Completed in 1925 and
designed by McKim, Mead & White, the building occupied a full block and had 12
separate sections and 432 apartments. The structure was built by the New York
and Harlem Railroad Company over the air rights of their railroad yards below,
like other buildings in this section. But it had been built with the possibility
of eventual conversion to offices and with foundations that would support a
75-story building, and by 1931 the Real Estate Record & Guide reported that "no
further long-term leases are being granted."

 

   The railroad had originally net-leased the building to an operating
corporation in 1923 for a maximum of 63 years. But the operator defaulted in
1931 and the railroad ultimately took back the building over the operator's
protests in 1948, although it denied that demolition was planned. After ownership disputes with another railroad were resolved in the 1950's, the structure was replaced by the present office building of the same address in 1962 -- three years before the Landmarks Preservation Commission was established. At least one other apartment project with such an interior courtyard, 1185 Park Avenue, between 93d and 94th Streets, survives without landmark designation.

RC Church 242 East 72nd

 

In a message dated 3/2/2009 5:55:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Tramedit@  writes:

Our pastor was wondering if the stone facade of our church, which was built in 1887 and is almost black now, was once a different color. What do you think?

It is brownstone - in short, brown.  From the Real Estate Record & Guide in 1886:

 

“...the southwest corner of Second avenue and Seventy-second street",  100x102,  "R.H. Robertson is making plans for a church and Sunday-school building....Romanesque style, and the front will be of Belleville stone...Akron tiles will be used in the gables...”

 

Belleville stone was from that town/area in New Jersey.   It is complicated for me to check on which ones, but Robertson used rough-facing brownstone on many 19th century churches, and it is likely although not certain that he used Belleville.  If that is the case, another instance of Belleville stone is that on the side of St. James' Church at 71st and Madison.  Although the Madison Avenue front was rebuilt in the 1920s (using similar but not necessarily identical stone) but the 71st Street side elevation is much less disturbed, and most of the original stone is there (although in some cases cut down).

 

Sort of a cocoa color, as I recall, rather than the really boring dead brown color seen elsewhere.

 

c

 

Only the dead know ....

 

In a message dated 3/5/2009 10:30:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kathrynmillan@  writes:

We love your StreetScapes column in the Times!

Loyal and appreciate reader ... I thank you! 

I just found your MetroHistory site which looks terrific. 

Not for Brooklyn, as you have discovered.  And not for photo research. 

However I am doing research for a friend who just bought 2 floors in a masonry-with-brownstone-facing (circa 1900) building in North (Park) Slope Brooklyn on Union Street between 7th & 8th Avenues.  I particularly want to find photos of the facade from before 1935.

Ummm.  Problem.  “"It'd take a guy a lifetime to know Brooklyn t'roo an' t'roo. An' even den, yuh wouldn't know it all."  —Thomas Wolfe, 1935

 

Brooklyn photos.  There weren't many.  Not many survived.  Not well organized.  Municipal Archives has "tax photos" but those are ca. 1940.   But they also have views of street improvements, some as early as the 1910s.  Long shot, but everything is going to be a long shot.   BPL has pretty good collection, but remember you are looking for an average-average building - each photograph is an economic decision.  Why would someone pay for a photograph of your totally-average building in 1910?  Not many people.   Brooklyn Historical is a balky, awkward source, but would be a piece of the puzzle.   NYPL has a collection of photos on line - http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgtitle_tree.cfm?level=1&title_id=359206 - but mostly 1930s, so you have probably discarded that already.

 

After that ... you are urinating into the wind.  A strong wind.  It always helps to know exactly what building you are looking for.  Rowhouse?  Apartment building?  Nunnery?   I could have sworn that area was included in the Park Slope Historic District at Landmarks Commission (which posts not only maps of the areas but, sometimes, actual designation reports).   In one in 20 cases, knowing the date and original use of the building can be of help.   Most researchers would consider it a prissy affectation.

 

Is there a comparable site for looking up Brooklyn buildings?

Nope.  See above.

Could you suggest a few places to begin research, as I have not done this before.
I did find 2 articles in the 1898 NYTimes about the fire on Union Street by googling FIRE and UNION ST BROOKLYN.

To begin with photos?   See above.  Generally?   Do the Brooklyn Eagle, digitized at BPL.   And look up "researching a new york city building" at the New York Society Library website.   Some parallels between Manhattan and Brooklyn sources.

Many thanks in advance for just one or two leads in my search.
And is it worth the $$ to subscribe to PropertyShark..com?

To do ... what?   And, don't they have a free-account system still, a few look-ups a day? 

In grateful appreciation of all your historical work, Kathryn Millan

And all your reading!

 

Christopher

"Now, this may be a little uncomfortable...."

 

In a message dated 3/19/2009 4:23:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ekraus@ writes:

Dear Mr. Gray,

Every time I go to the dentist at the above address I forget about the coming ordeal because I can walk into the foyer of that building.  It is an intact beaux arts gem complete with putti frescoes, tiled floors  abounding with phoenixes and woodwork inlaid with mother of pearl Raphaelesque designs. The outside hardware is original as are the plate  glass panels in the doors.  The interior lobby has all its hardware plus  wood paneling and fireplace surround.  Altogether a treat.
I know there are other buildings right near by that are probably equally interesting and may already be known to you but this is my favorite.  It
just reeks beautiful craftsmanship.

Sincerely,

Evelyn Kraus

Designed in 1900 by Neville & Bagge for A. S. Luria.   Luria I have never heard of, but Neville & Bagge were prolific - rampant is the correct word - with spec apartment houses, designing sixty (60) as I recall in 1908. 

 

I lived in one - 255 West 90th, 1910 - and, candidly, it is a sort of cheap swank - off the shelf leaded glass, marble paneling, etc.  Not that I am against cheap swank, but it is at the lower end of construction practices in New York.  Still, it is at a far higher standard than that of post-1940 buildings, although untutored.  I have wondered for many years who designed it, with its distinctive mansard.

 

I don't mean to speak so harshly - these buildings are endearing in their ambition, but such was the estimate of them at the time.  It was called the Hillcrest - appropriate, no?

 

c